Sunday, July 8, 2007

The Functions of Commenting

When I first heard about "mommybloggers," it was 2005. I had a seriously broken leg and was feeling might sorry for myself. For most people, breaking a bone is relatively straightforward: trip to the ER, x-ray, casting, crutches, and six weeks of itching, aching, and inconvenience. But when it comes to injuring myself, I am not like most people. I do it up, I really do. Break more than one bone? Check. Shatter the bones instead of breaking them cleanly? Check. Surgery? Check. Four months of bedrest? Check. Six months of intensive physical therapy? Check.

I had been directed by doctors to lie 24/7 on a hospital bed wheeled into our family room for the duration. The lower half of the bed was permanently elevated so that my leg would be up in the air and hopefully heal better and faster. I could have watched TV, but it held no appeal. I did, however, have a laptop by my side. And one day, a neighbor of mine stopped by to commiserate with me, and we chatted for a while. In the course of conversation, she mentioned that she was a blogger. “What’s a blogger?,” I asked, Luddite that I was. She explained, and I was intrigued. That night, I found her site and read through a good-sized chunk of her archives. I was hooked.

A few weeks later, still reading her blog, I noticed her blogroll on the sidebar, and, on a whim, I clicked over to Breed 'Em and Weep and Dooce. Hooked. Hooked. Now I was reading three blogs. Reading blogs, but not reading comments. Not writing them, either. I remember wondering why I would ever want to read the comments on someone’s blog. I was interested in reading good writing. It had not yet dawned on me that there might be a community aspect to blogging. I’m a little slow on the uptake.

Time passed, and I discovered a fourth blog, Suburban Bliss. Melissa’s writing was different from the other writers with whom I had become familiar. She wrote more for an audience. She still does. She talks to her audience within her posts. She asks for advice. She asks her readers to stop giving her advice when she’s had enough advice, or the wrong advice. She banters with her readers. One day, her post was a direct response to a comment she had received on an earlier post. Curious, I found the comment that had provoked her post. And, once I read that comment, I had to read the ones that came after. Hooked.

Still, I did not comment myself. I did not have a blog. I did not have any intention of starting my own blog. I thought that one had to have a blog in order to comment on someone else’s blog. I had no idea what I was doing. Months went by, my leg finally healed, I got busier. Life intervened. My blog reading fell off.

Then Jenn wrote this post about her daughter Sophie, who was trying to understand the politics of friendships among girls, and her writing took my breath away. The post was so beautiful and sad and poignant and true and heartbreaking. I just had to tell her how much it had moved me. So, with a bit of trepidation, I wrote a comment, maybe my first, maybe not, but certainly one of my first. And much to my surprise, it wasn’t hard to comment at all! (I sabotage myself this way all the time. I assume that something will be difficult, avoid it for far too long, and then am shocked that it’s not that hard. You’d think I would know better by now. But no.)

Ever since that time when I made my first forays into the world of commenting, I’ve been thinking about why people comment (and why they don’t), and all that thinking has led to… a list. Yes, I'm an inveterate list-maker. This list is my attempt to document and describe some of the functions of commenting. Needless to say, these functions can and do operate in tandem. They are not mutually exclusive.

Functions of Commenting:

Emotional
The power of the emotions that can be stirred up by reading blogs and viewing blog images has been explored beautifully by HBM in this post, in which she uses the term 'puncture' (or 'punctum,' borrowed from Barthes) to describe the impact of an image (but equally a word, phrase, sentence, paragraph, or post); it’s a must-read. If a story, an image (as in HBM’s post), or a turn of phrase moves a reader sufficiently, he or she may document that emotional response by commenting. (This is what motivated me to write that comment on Jenn’s post.)

• Self-promotional
Bloggers may comment as a means of directing traffic back towards their own blogs. Because comments include the comment author’s site address, this kind of self-promotion is easy, and, more importantly, when handled deftly, subtle. To the readers of a comment, it would not be clear whether the commenter had commented simply to gain a larger audience, or for any or all of the other reasons I’ve listed here. No blogger wants to be seen as shamelessly and directly promoting his or her blog, and commenting is a kinder, gentler way of achieving the same effect, as long as the comment is meaningful and not too transparent. No one has written about this more honestly than bubandpie did in this post, from which the following is excerpted:

Commenting functioned as currency. It was like free advertising space, right there at the end of every post. I could click my way through the blogosphere, scattering a trail of crumbs wherever I went, hoping that somebody would follow them back home to my blog. (And I put a lot of effort into those crumbs – they had to look all casual and crumbly-like, but really they were laced with as much chocolatey goodness as I could manage without looking like I was trying too hard.)

Interestingly, bubandpie argues that this motivation for commenting recedes as the blogger gains higher status and recognition in the blogosphere. But she’s one of the most well-known bloggers out there, and I’m not sure that her argument would hold for the more typical blogger.

• Representational
Bloggers comment to leave their mark as members of a community with which they identify. In this way, they suggest to others that they believe that they are part of a group. The group may fluctuate: it may simply be the blogging community, or the blogger may have in mind a smaller group within that community. Clues to the group of which the commenter wants to be a representative can be found in the content and, just as important, the tone of the comment.

• Supportive
Parenting bloggers, who are by and large women, find it extremely important to offer support, empathy, and/or sympathy in their commenting. This is likely because women count supporting others as a critical, if not primary, function of their gender role. Whether that is because of innate factors, or because women are fulfilling the societal expectation that they be supportive, isn’t clear.

There are abundant examples of supportive commenting. Most recently, WhyMommy’s battle with inflammatory breast cancer has moved many, many bloggers to leave supportive comments at her site.

I've written more extensively about the supportive function of commenting on my own blog. In this post, I suggested that commenters, when in a supportive mode, enact a role startlingly like that of an ancient Greek chorus.

• Critical
A small number of bloggers who are actively writing short stories or novels explicitly solicit feedback on their work from their readers. Two such bloggers are cce and emily.

Lurking and Delurking:

About a month ago, I conducted an informal survey on my own blog. I asked my lurkers why they lurk. And they were kind enough to delurk in order to respond to my query. I attempted to categorize their answers and came up with this list (I make lists, it's what I do!) of reasons lurkers lurk:

• Time pressures
• Privacy concerns
• No blog of one’s own/no faith in one’s writing (commenting) ability
• Belief that there are already so many comments that one’s comment will get lost in the shuffle/perception that one has nothing unique or interesting to add to the conversation/belief that the post doesn’t lend itself to comments
• Uncertainty about the rules of the blogosphere


Lurkers will delurk when specifically asked to delurk. In fact, one or two of my lurkers wrote that they felt flattered to be singled out, to feel that their thoughts and opinions mattered.

*******************************************

Phew. Are you still with me? This post, as long as it is (sorry!), barely scratches the surface, I think. Please feel free to weigh in. In other words, to comment. Heh.

54 comments:

flutter said...

I find that I comment to create a sense of community with the women that I read. To touch them and let them know, I'm here for you

Lawyer Mama said...

To me, the commenting is about the community. And maybe a small part of it is the hope that the favor will be returned, that the community will expand.

I have more to say, but I'll have to come back later. That's actually the first time I've read HBM's linked post, so thank you for pointing that out. As usual, you and HBM and B&P all touched on things that I think about often but don't articulate nearly as well.

bubandpie said...

If the "Representational" category includes affiliative commenting (commenting to indicate one's belonging to the group), that also functions as a powerful deterrent to commenting in some circumstances.

I've mentioned this before, but I'm sometimes hesitant to comment on blogs specifically about parenting autistic children because my son doesn't actually have a diagnosis - I'm not sure that I belong in that community, so I'm hesitant to chime in.

Oddly enough, really chatty blogs where there's a lot of back and forth in the comment section can sometimes seem like the most alienating spaces of all - everybody already knows everybody, it seems, so it can feel awkward to show up and throw in a random remark.

thailandchani said...

B&P, it's interesting that you would see the interaction in the forum as being exclusive (paraphrasing). I do encourage that a lot.. but don't want it to seem that way.

Do you have any suggestions on how to prevent it from feeling that way? Is there anything a blog author could do that would make you feel more welcome? Speaking for only me, you certainly would be!

I enjoy it very much when people talk to each other in the comments forum. It's like a group discussion.

~*

Generally, not directed to anyone, I wanted to bring up the gnarly issue of reciprocity.

Just putting this out there, but I am going to propose that it matters.

How do others feel about that? Does reciprocity matter to you?

I wanted to be one of those who would say "nah.. doesn't matter".. but if I'm to be entirely truthful, it does ~ and I do notice.

For me, speaking only for myself, commenting is what makes the blog viable. If there were no comments on mine, I wouldn't blog any more. It's all about the interaction, getting to know others, to hear their thoughts and ideas on different topics. I answer all the comments at my site.

But then.. I tend to incorrectly call my site a "forum", instead of "blog".

~*

On the other topic mentioned, as far as "big blogs", I don't comment on them. Two reasons: I like interaction and I can't imagine any interaction taking place with the author ~ and there are some blogs where I could comment until my fingers fall off and the favor would never be returned. I tried with a few.. but got fairly sour on the idea when it seemed my comments weren't valued at all. The author doesn't respond to comments.. and doesn't visit other sites.


Peace,


~Chani

Miscellaneous-Mum said...

Something not completely unrelated to the topic: fake comments.

http://www.problogger.net/archives/2007/06/28/91-of-problogger-readers-dont-fake-it/

(Many of you may recognise this post/site)

Raises a whole new set of questions - assuming that - ahem - we recognise there are people out there who fake comments on their site. Does that count any of us here, I wonder?!

(Don't answer that if you don't want!)

I haven't. Have I been tempted? No. Has the thought crossed my mind?

Uh.......I'll take the fifth :) ;)

slouching mom said...

Chani: I find the issue of reciprocity really troubling. On the one hand, I don't like the idea of leaving a comment at a site just because someone left one at mine. It seems so... crass and robotic.

On the other, I think it's a gesture of support and community-building to do so. I go back and forth on this.

But reciprocity becomes incredibly difficult the more commenters one has. It has (I think) been responsible for bloggers leaving the blogosphere because they can't keep up.

misc-mum: Really? Really? This is new to me. And I'm sitting here thinking, "You can do that?" But of course you can, it just hadn't occurred to me...

But why? Why would you want to? If you never get any comments, to spur some activity?

Lawyer Mama said...

Chani brings up reciprocity. Boy, that's a loaded topic! It's a touchy subject for me too because I've recently gotten to the point where I simply can't visit all the commenters on some of my posts. I always think that I *should* but if I did, I'd never have time to write any more posts!

Wow, fake comments? I'm not sure why someone would do that. To spur conversation? I have had people leave anonymous comments on posts asking me to address something controversial, but tangentially related to a post. I find that annoying, but only if it's done anonymously. Why hide? I don't get that either.

I can relate to what B&P says. The back and forth can be intimidating at first. It's like trying to break into the popular kids' table at lunch time.

Susanne said...

Great post on the topic. I'd say as with everything our motives to comment are mixed, aren't they? All in all comments have been my most reliable source of self-promotion, but more through a sense of community and of getting to know people through their comments so that one wants to look at the blog too.

The reciprocal part has me, though. I can easily get more comments on my blog when I just leave tons of comments on other people's sites. That feels a little hollow though. Like, I leave you one if I leave you one. And you can't do that indefinitely since there will be a point when you (hopefully) have more readers than blogs you can read.

For me commenting has a lot to do with the emotional aspect and the community aspect.

bubandpie said...

I enjoy having a conversational environment on my blog, too - and that's why I brought it up, because I caught myself being intimidated by elsewhere, even though it SEEMS so much friendlier and more inviting. One blog I've been lurking on issued one of those periodical de-lurking requests, and I think those are helpful from time to time - they're a reminder that this person isn't just wanting to chat with her existing friends, but is interested in making new ones.

That segues nicely into the reciprocity issue. For many people, a choice has to be made between greeting newcomers and nurturing relationships. And how soon that choice occurs has more to do with the time resources the blogger possesses than with the sheer size of the audience. Do I prioritize greeting new people in order to make them feel welcome, even if that means commenting less often on the blogs of those I've been getting to know for months? Or do I stick with a core group of bloggers I care about and just accept that I won't be returning visits/comments to every newcomer?

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to that question - it's a matter of individual preference, and there's room for both social styles.

Aliki2006 said...

Great post. I personally love the idea of a conversational environment on my blog. I always feel a little strange when I visit blogs loaded with comments but with no responsive voice from the author. To me this is akin to someone who sits and listens to you talk but won't respond back, thus giving you no idea what he/she thinks of what you just said.

I think if it ever got to the point where I couldn't reciprocate with my readers then I, too, would leave the blogging world. I firmly believe in reciprocity--I think it's a responsibility we take on when we blog, when we put ourselves out there into a community. Again, I liken the blogging world to real world relationships. I can't imagine accepting the friendship/conversation of another person and yet not giving them back the same.

I had never heard of fake comments, either--what a concept!

thailandchani said...

B&P, all... Thanks for your thoughts on reciprocity. I think I'm largely with Aliki on this. The interaction is important and something feels weird about "I don't have the time to respond to commenters."

As for the nurturing existing relationships or welcoming newcomers, both are important -- at least to me. A lot of it is just about ordinary courtesy.

I'll grant this much: I am retired and have more time than most people. On the other hand, I think Aliki makes a good point when she says that we take on a certain responsibility when we put things out into the community. Time, even in this culture, isn't always a full-proof excuse for lack of courtesy.

It's a difficult balance, I know.. and I'm not making any judgments about those who don't respond to commenters. I just find it personally off-putting.. because if I am talking to someone, I like it when they talk back, especially if I have a question about something they've said. Naturally, responding to "Hey, great post" is another matter entirely. I respond with "thanks" ~ but if someone else doesn't, it doesn't bother me.

My site will never be so big that I have that concern, I don't imagine. After almost a year, it isn't.. so it's safe to assume that won't be occurring. :)

I can also see Slouching Mom's point about the back-and-forth seeming hollow.. to leave a comment for those who comment on my site. Just the same, I wouldn't be awfully comfortable just ignoring someone who made a kind gesture to me (leaving comment).

Fake comments? I can see the purpose from a certain point of view if the site is designed to get discussion going. An active site will generate more activity if it already looks active.. (think of Yahoo mailing lists. When they're dead, they tend to remain dead) but I don't think I'd have the guts to do it. I'd be too afraid of being caught! LOL

Anonymous comments: I don't mind them. People all use their voice differently. If it's spam, I just delete it. I'm more concerned with kindness than with accountability.

Thanks for the great discussion. This is clarifying some things for me that weren't clear before.


Peace,

~Chani

Bobita~ said...

For me, commenting is the most challenging part of blogging. I am a one-to-one kind of person. I like to look a person in the eye, so they can see my sincerity. And, I can't always adequately express myself through comments. Sometimes, I read posts and sit there sobbing, as a little crack snakes its way across my heart, but I have no way of knowing if my comment will sound trite or contrived. It really, really matters to me that my comments be genuine. If I stare at the comment box, not able to write anything substantial, somethat that genuinely reflects my heart...I simply don't. (I have spent as much as an HOUR trying to write a comment, then erased it because the words did not measure up to what was happening in my head or my heart.) So, I click away. But I click away *feeling* something...inspired, renewed, sad, victorious, awed.

If blogging really IS about relationship building, why are we interested in traffic?

For me, I have come to understand that building connections (traffic) was important at the beginning. Important in that some of those passersby stayed. They pulled up a chair, grabbed a cup of coffee and built a friendship with me. And, for my bloggie-friends, if I am not able to express myself in the comments, in that public space, I drop them an email. An email seems to be more personal. (Hmmm, now I'm wondering about the *public* aspect of commenting...)

This was a wonderful, thought-provoking post. I almost didn't comment, and I still don't know that my words express what I am trying to get at...but I am going to press "publish your comment" and cross my fingers. (Phew, that only took 42 minutes. SEE? See why I don't comment all the time! I don't have time to DEVELOP my thoughts! AHHHH!) *pressing the publish button, now*

slouching mom said...

Bobita: LOL. Yes, the public aspect of commenting is important. I would imagine that whatever performance anxiety a blogger has about posting would not be diminished when commenting.

We all want to appear smart, witty, profound, clever, warm... It's human nature, if we're being honest with ourselves.

When I write a comment with a typo, why do I care? Why do I inevitably write a follow-up comment correcting it?

It all comes down to impression management. Maybe that sounds cynical, and maybe it operates more strongly in some bloggers than in others, but it is a motivation we cannot deny, I think.

OK, I'll shut up now. I have comment diarrhea. You sound like you have comment constipation. ;)

Her Bad Mother said...

The issue of reciprocity is one that I grapple with every day, because it's simply impossible to reciprocate every comment, or every visit. But I do try. I guess the issue is, to what extent does the effort count? It might take me a few weeks, or multiple visits from somebody, before I'm able to visit. I might only visit once or twice. I might visit and not comment.

And, I might not visit at all. It's NEVER a snub if I don't visit. It means that I have other, more important things to do - like (ahem) parent. Or write. I try, I really do. But I just can't manage to be the perfect hostess.

Nor do I think that I, nor anyone, should feel pressured to try. If I tried to make a system of it, or set rules, my blog would cease to be like my home - it would be an institution (perhaps with doorman or butler or social secretary?) And, granted, some blogs might seem institutional. But my feeling is that most of them are not - even the ones that seem bigger than big. Most bloggers who are, end of the day, diarists, have deeply personal, intimate relationships with their blogs and their readers - the community of blogging. It just doesn't always look like a kaffee klatsch.

Heather Armstrong (Dooce) has said that she shuts off comments when she's not going to be around her computer to stay on top of the discussion - to read every single comment. Because they're personal, and because she feels a personal responsibility to moderate the comments and be involved. But she doesn't visit very many other blogs - just those in her circle. And is there anything wrong with that? I don't think so. This is a VAST community. Should we, as writers, reject audience if we cannot be directly, personally involved with that audience? Could we even control that if we wanted to?

I'm starting to sound like an apologist for big bloggers, I know. And I'm not, for the record, counting myself in this group. I just think that we need to be careful about making assumptions about their quote-unquote motivations for blogging and their comportment toward the community and what it means if they don't come and comment on "our" blogs. There are many communities in this 'sphere, and I'm leary about labelling any one of those (or anyone in them) "Other."

Lori said...

This is a fascinating post for me, as are the comments. This re-emphasizes for me why I am so glad that I entered Blogland so naive and unschooled. Call me crazy, but I actually did start writing my Blog just for me. In reading other blogs related to prematurity and infant loss, I realized I had a lot to say on the subject, and my own loss. But I also quickly realized that I wanted to write about my loss in the larger context of my life as well. I didn't want to focus only on loss, but on celebration and living as well.

I was so naive that I actually didn't really connect the fact that when I left comments on other blogs, they might come looking for me. The first comment I received could have knocked me over with a feather.

Anyhow... I am glad I didn't understand the social dynamics of the Blog world when I started because it might have scared me away. I am sure I would have quit before I ever started. But now that I am here, I too am hooked!

Oh, and I appreciate authors that join in on the comments. It's nice to know they read them, and care enough to enter the discussion. I try to do that whenever possible, or when the comments move me to do so. If someone asks me a direct question in relation to my post, I always answer.

Aliki2006 said...

Great discussion!

I was (still am, I suppose to a certain extent) a naive blogger as well. I started my blog as a way to force myself to write each day and to produce more writing (essays, fiction, etc.) that I can submit places. I also wanted an outlet for my ideas. I had NO idea that a community of bloggers existed and, in fact, only slowly discovered this. For the longest time I (oddly) viewed blogging as rather a solitary practice. I still care little about traffic, actually, but I do care about the relationships I've developed among fellow bloggers. I love the conversations, the shared stories, the writing, the connections made.

I don't think anyone should ever feel badly as far as the reciprocity issues goes. For me it's important--but I also have the "luxury" of making it important because my community is small. I also think no one should feel obligated to stop by every single day and offer up a comment. I agree with HBM that setting up too many parameters and guidelines would introduce an aspect of rigidity to a process that is comfortable, warm, and nurturing.

But I do think that reciprocal conversation, whether daily, weekly, or even monthly, is important at some level. I was just thinking about bloggers who never--or very seldom--enter into conversations in their comments.

thailandchani said...

Aliki, I agree, too, with you and HBM that it shouldn't be rigid. Just to be clear about that. Naturally, like any community, customs and mores develop over time.

I also came into this completely without experience.. a complete neophyte.. and a good dose of social phobia tops it off. In no way am I any benchmark for how it should be done. I stumble and fall, make mistakes and miscalculations, screw up and screw up again.

Ultimately, I think the same rules apply to blogging that apply everywhere else. Kindness first. Kindness matters.

And everyone will have a different way of expressing it.

:)


Peace,

~Chani

slouching mom said...

The content of a comment is also important in determining whether the blog author responds, no? It isn't just about the personality of the blog author.

As Chani pointed out, there's not much one can say in response to a comment like, "Wonderful post," except perhaps "Thank you," which I think is understood and doesn't need to be written.

But at the other extreme are comments in which follow-up is explicitly solicited, as for example if more information or clarification is requested by a commenter.

So this issue of an author's response (or not) to comments is tricky and likely to be a complex interaction among content of a post, personality of the author, content of a comment, and personality of the commenter.

That's why I'd never categorically suggest that bloggers who don't respond to comments are not interested in community-building, or not friendly, or...

As in every other realm, it's so much more complicated than that.

Jenn said...

I'm with many of the commenters here, I comment to let them know that I'm there, listening and reading.

And also as a thanks--although public, when I'm reading someone's blog, I still feel like I've been invited in to sit for a spell, and so want to offer up a thank you.

InTheFastLane said...

I have to say that I started commenting when I realized that no one would read my blog unless they knew I was there. But, now it is more a sense of community and support that drives me to comment. There are, however several blogs that I read and like and don't comment on because after commenting on a site more than a few times, if I don't at least get some acknowledgment in return I don't feel like commenting anymore. I guess I like give and take relationships, even on blogs.

bubandpie said...

I think the time constraint is far more than an excuse to be lazy about reciprocating visits/comments. Far too many blogs that I love have gone on hiatus from exactly this pressure to be generous and courteous - to comment on every single post, to visit every single new commenter. In the post of mine that Slouching Mom linked to here, I closed with a plea to my readers - comment away, but not at the expense of your own writing. I'd rather you keep writing and not feel obligated to comment.

Mary G said...

Way to go SM. This is fascinating. And I love the comment discussion about reciprocity. For me, I try to comment only when I have something to add, and while I will go and read the blog of someone who leaves me a comment, I don't then leave them a comment just for that reason. 'It feels hollow', as several comments here have said.

That said, I believe that saying you like what someone has written is avalid reason to comment. I especially like the way people do it who pick up a line and quote it and praise it. For me, this is feedback of the best sort and the reward for having written. But I often don't have time to do that the way I would like to. I don't know how those of you with small kids and a heavy outside job manage. I sometimes don't get to the computer for several days. I think you can only hope that people understand this, because they also have constraints.

I think we have all been working on the 'self promotional' item on your list. (I love lists! You go girl!) As for the 'representational', yes, but I find I am reminded of scent marking... I hope no one is offended. Interestingly enough, I don' think that this holds true for this site -- the communal BlogRhet site -- and I find myself feeling guilty that I am using my computer time here instead of at my own site. Do you find it different here, or is it just me?

Cynthia said...

I find leaving comments rather intimidating.....I leave them on blogs of people I know or people I have connected with in some personal way, be it because of location or shared interest...but there are blogs that I love to read (such as yours Slouching Mom) that I have never been able to bring myself to comment upon.

The reciprocity issue hadn't occurred to me when I started my blog---as others have said---I was too naive about the blogging world. I started my blog as a way to work through some stressful situations and keep family updated. It was only later that I realized the reciprocity and promotional side to commenting. Therefore, to comment somehow makes me feel that I am assuming that my blog would be of interest and even though I hate to admit this...I guess I just don't have that confidence. So I just throw my hands up in the proverbial air and tell myself not to think about it and I go back to just quietly blogging away until something hooks me again and I again go back and forth about delurking. It does feel like breaking into the popular clique at school and God knows that was something I didn't have the A. Desire and B. Balls for way back when....much less now. I guess I am comfortable commenting when I think someone doesn't have a large audience because then they will value my comment---I know how much comments mean to me---but comments on blogs with an obvious audience....I guess it brings out the junior high girl in me.....I thought she was gone but I suppose she never goes away even though I have the confidence to talk freely about myself on my blog and good god...I've even gone out without eyeliner and mascara of late...and worn some sleeveless shirts....something I NEVER would have had the nerve to do some time ago...

one step at a time I guess....

hermitgrrl said...

This was really informative and interesting to a baby blogger like me.
I try to leave intelligent comments pertinent to posts I enjoy... but also to let the writer know that they are heard. I've lived with some one who would often not acknowledge that I had spoken- makes a person feel puny, and I don't want anyone to feel that.
I more often lurk because I'm painfully shy and it's like stepping up on stage. I just realized, though, that bloggers, besides being intelligent and hillarious and captivating, are also kind and supportive. I will try to follow their example and have some guts, so here goes.

Jen M. said...

The reciprocity aspect is a weird animal. Sometimes it feels like when a neighbor brings over a Christmas gift and you run upstairs to find something, anything, to regift to them. Simply because you feel obligated because they were kind. But other times, I am genuinely delighted to find new voices out there, new stories that make up this community in which we are all pioneers. I also feel grateful that someone out there took the time to read my words, to "care" - if that's what it was. Sometimes it's easy to spot the other self-promoting comments. As for the chocolate laced goodies, well, I've bitten.

slouching mom said...

Cynthia: Well now that you've commented here, I will be offended if you don't delurk once in a while on my site. ;)

This belief that some lurkers, like Cynthia, share that their comments or blogs wouldn't be interesting saddens me so much. First of all, we all love comments, every single one of us. Comments from whomever, wherever, about whatever. (Unless they're spam.)

Second, I wish lurkers knew that a lot of us have a shortage of self-confidence. Hmm. At least I do.

ALM said...

As I've started to read more blogs (thanks to the wonderful Google Reader) - I've started to notice comments.

I've noticed that many comments won't be like those for this post: thoughtful, exact, meaningful... They will (seem like) just throw-away lines: "Great post" "well said" or just "ROFL!"

Because of that, I've held back from commenting. I don't feel like I "know" the poster that well to just toss off a line like that. So, unless I feel strongly moved by a post, or feel I have something valuable to add to the conversation - I won't comment.

Which actually, now that I'm re-reading this, seems counter intuitive.... wouldn't it be easier to just say "good post" and leave it at that?

Guess I feel like I haven't worked my way up to the "toss away comments" yet!

But, as a (teensy weensy)smallsmallsmall blogger I *will* say that it makes me feel like I'm in High School and the popular kid has smiled at me when a "Big" blogger comments on my site.

So come on, guys!! :)

thailandchani said...

I'd double that, Cynthia. :) We're all just people... and I know how completely intimidating that feels.

During the past several months, there are times when I've felt like I'm back in junior high, too... (and I guarantee I'm much older than you :) .. and sometimes that old nagging feeling comes back again.

I've tried sharing that with readers, letting them know when it happens, when I feel that way. Saying it makes it more acceptable for everyone to acknowledge that we all experience it.

If you are lurking on my site, I also invite you to come forth. :) Your thoughts are just as important as anyone else's.


Peace,

~Chani

painted maypole said...

I began much as you did, without even reading the comments. Then I began to read them, and soon began clicking to other sites to read them. Then I shyly began leaving comments. And once I got my own blog and began reading even more, I think I comment for a combination of all of the above mentioned reasons. I want to be party of that community, and to do so, I have to enter the conversation! I've learned, too, that as a blogger I love to get comments, so have become much less shy about having to have something "brilliant" to say about a post, and realize that a comment that just basicially says "I read this, and I enjoyed it" is often enough.

Sober Briquette said...

I am an emotional/supportive commenter. I write on my own blog mostly because if I didn't write something once in a while, I'd be hijacking others' comment boxes all too much. When I started out, I just barged right in without a lurking period. Now, sadly, I do read more blogs than I can comment on, and it's a struggle to decide whether to lurk/skim in the reader or just not to read at all. I like the sense of being "a regular."

I appreciate it when a blogger will leave a comment at my blog, saying something like, "I've seen you around." It helps me to further connect with the "community" because I rarely seek out new blogs to read any more.

I'm on the fence about interactive commenting. I don't think it's necessary to make a blog fun to read. Sometimes I don't have time to check back again for a while, so I'd miss the discussion anyway. And I guess when the ideas start flying fast and furious, I'm more likely to just listen. In person, I'm very quiet.

Meg said...

What a fascinating discussion. SM you lay everything out beautifully. This post is exactly why I'm involved in GNMParents. The idea of bringing talented parents together can facilitate wonderful conversations and a strong sense of community. It doesn't always happen, but when it does it's beautiful.
Parenting can sometimes be isolating, but having an active blog helps combat that feeling.
Excellent post and comments!
-Meg
GNMParents

Little Irish said...

Okay . . .I'm dipping my toes in the commenting waters. I'm not a regular commenter and fairly new to blogging. In the short time as a blogger, I have become completely addicted and hooked to finding "regular" moms like me blogging about their lives and their families. But this post has inspired me to "delurk" and jump in.

I love the thought of a blogging community especially one of like minded mothers. And I've always thought it would wonderful to meet and make friends like I've read and seen on DOOCE, Mighty Girl, Suburban Bliss, etc. But having a touch of bad comments from "annoymous" on my brand new blog scared me away. So I turned off the commenting on my blog and quietly continued read and enjoy my favorite blogs like Slouching Mom. Thanks for the great post!!

Mrs. Chicken said...

Oh man.

I have so much to say about this. I get so frustrated when my posts don't generate comments. It makes me feel like I'm talking to myself.

Which, if we are all honest, is not what writers really want.

But I agree, it is impossible to visit and comment on every reader's blog. And as I found, readers will abandon your blog if you don't reciprocate.

This is timely for me, because I see folks unlinking from me and not visiting anymore and I have to admit that I am truly hurt by this.

At the same time, I cannot always conjure a pithy and/or worthwhile comment, so I will often just lurk.

Like Aliki, blogging was a writing exercise for me in the beginning and now it is also an exercise in community.

Funny, I rarely participate in my comments, and it sounds from this like perhaps I need to!

slouching mom said...

Mrs. C.: I don't know. (Imagine Sarah putting on her experimental psychologist hat.) The people who've commented here are a biased sample, because they are the ones who are particularly interested in the issue of commenting; otherwise they would never have gotten through that loooooooong post. I think that in truth relatively few bloggers participate in their own comments. Which is not to say that more shouldn't. It sounds like bloggers wouldn't at all mind doing so, in an ideal world, but are severely constrained by time.

And that leads me nicely into sharing a perfect example of impending blogger burnout. If you don't believe bloggers can get overwhelmed by reading blogs and commenting, read this post:

http://phantomscribbler.blogspot.com/2007/07/true-confessions-part-3.html

(written today by Phantom Scribbler)

The part that gnawed at me long after I read it was that while on vacation and without internet access, she realized that it's a hell of a lot easier and more fun to parent without trying to fit it in around blogging. God, do I know this feeling. And am I ever guilty about it. Her post is worth a look.

KC said...

Great post on this topic and what a discussion.

Like you, I started reading popular mommyblogs and was quickly turned off by commenting by seeing 200 comments saying essentially the same thing like "You're Awesome!" And "I want to be like you!". And no interaction or reciprocity. I wasn't sure what the role of commenting was besides shameless promotion.

The idea of community grew as I saw blogs that were "chatty", the idea that a blogger seemed to care about readers and what they thought. I knew I wanted a blog like that. Then finding bloggers that I felt connected to through commenting. It's a relationship

It's hard this reciprocity- it takes time and I can't totally keep up with it, but I still want to try. I want to be a good neighbor. I feel I owe that much at least.

Snoskred said...

It's worthwhile to mention this little service called co.mments (- http://co.mments.com/ -) where you can track comments almost like you track blogs. It is extremely handy if you enter into a discussion and want to see how it goes. I'm not sure how it works but you can put a little "track with co.mments" at the bottom of your blog posts if you follow the instructions.

As far as commenting is concerned, I have been doing an awful lot of it. I did a comments challenge with NaBloPoMo last year where some days I commented on over 100 blogs a day. Some of my regular readers came from there.

I don't really provide the right environment for discussion to go on in the comments and I'm not sure how to do that, but I am trying to make sure I reply to comments now.

Kyla said...

Wonderfully said. I think that all of those are valid reasons. I, like you, go back and forth on reciprocity. I don't comment solely because someone commented me, but I do go and visit if they are a new commenter and check things out. If it draws me in, then I continue visiting, just like with any other blog.

jen said...

what strikes me is how our insecurities follow us - not being kind enough, being left out, intruding on an existing community...it's all part and parcel of how we navigate our lives and it translates here. the interesting thing is it doesn't have to - we can bravely write, comment, or not and still be us.

i respect the gigantic bloggers because it's work to get there and to continue to stay there. i'd hate (as with any sort of fame) to feel the pressure described here, but i suppose obligation and judgment goes along with any "public" figure position. the trick is figuring out how and why it matters to us and working backwards.

a work in progress, i'd say.

InTheFastLane said...

I also wanted to mention that I read more often than I comment. I usually only comment when I feel like I am adding something to the conversation that has not been said already. So, sometimes if there are a lot of comments, by the time I read it, I don't comment. That being said, I have commented twice on this post, so I am upping my average here :)

bgirl said...

at the risk of doing what was just discussed as a non-necessary prop...great post! i am a regular lurker on your site for the most part, though I will comment here and there. i lurk for different reasons, sometimes it has to do with time, but more often i feel somewhat intimidated when there are so many comments, i wonder, what can i add. much of this has to do with being fairly *green* in blogland, i was unsure of the commenting *rules*, additionally i was in awe of the various writers ability to bring such texture to their stories, how could i offer a measly comment? this is coupled with thinking (similar to budandpie)why do they care what some random person, thinks.

when i do comment, i would say, it is because something really resonates, or i want that writer to know i am there, reading in admiration, in support, and at times, in the hope of becoming a part of their close knit community, despite my infrequent comments.

as far as reciprocity, that can actually prevent me from commenting. i'm not sure i want someone to feel they must now go read my blog and offer a comment. that reminds me of my mom telling me i had to invite someone to my b-day party because they have invited me to theirs. i would rather have authenticity than reciprocity out of a sense of obligation.

slouching mom said...

bgirl: I absolutely agree with your point about reciprocity, but I also believe that plenty of bloggers reciprocate without feeling a tug of obligation.

When obligation sets in, it's time to stop for a while. IMHO.

(And I'm not at all saying this is the case for you. I'm thinking about this more generally.)

When I do not feel stressed, or pressed for time, I genuinely enjoy clicking over to the site of someone new who's commented on my site. Once there, I cannot help but comment.

But when I'm stressed, it feels like a chore. At those times, it would be best for me not even to attempt to reciprocate. It would be unfair to the other blogger to do so.

Emily said...

Hi, there.

A few things --

1) There are so many comments here that if I read them all I won't be able to write for the day! And, I have to. But, I read a good number and tried to skim the rest because it is such an interesting conversation.
2) I, too, was intimidated at first by the comments. Everyone seemed to know each other. But so many of you were so receptive and supportive that I stopped feeling like the eleven year old dancing at the edges of a big group in hopes that people would think she has friends.
3) I try to comment on everything I read as long as it speaks to me. The blogs I visit regularly do just that. As a writer, it is very important to me to feel i am not writing to a vacuum -- I guess I assume others feel the same way. I worry that people think I am just commenting for the sake of commenting, but that feels better to me than reading something personal and not responding.
4) And I am about to write this to my commenters -- comments are amazingly helpful to me with my writing. My topic is so personal and difficult that, if I didn't feel like I was writing for a group of friends, I would bag it all and sign up for a few more pilates classes. Lately, I've gotten excellent help and I am really grateful.
5) My husband read a comment my Lawyer Mama the other day and asked me who that was. I told him that she's a blogger and very cool. It was the first time I had really voiced that I was making new friends and writing a book at the same time!
6) Baby -- I wish I could read more and comment more. But I would rather read the few sites I can get to and comment on them than trying to scatter myself about. As it is, I found myself writing during nookie time the other day.

Oh, The Joys said...

I read and comment a lot. Primarily because I read such touching or funny things and I want the author to know that I have been there, read and appreciated their work.

I never thought of commenting as "marketing". I guess that's because I don't usually seek new blogs to read through comments on other folk's blogs so I don't think anyone finds me that way either.

I generally don't engage in discussion in my own comments. I think that's because I find it hard to believe anyone would come back twice in one day to my site.

When someone writes a particularly touching comment, I respond to them personally through e-mail if I can or in their comments even if I have to say "this is totally unrelated to your post, but I wanted you to know..."

I love finding out about new blogs when someone new to me leaves a comment. I try to make sure I visit bloggers that I don't recognize. I also pay attention to who is new. I remember feeling so GREEN when I started blogging and so grateful to people who would comment. I especially try to comment on new bloggers sites as a way to say, "Welcome! We're not scary!" (or exclusive - or whatever.)

I continue to be amazed, truly AMAZED that anyone reads my blog at all (besides my mom and my Granny.)

Bon said...

damn! i missed all this conversation yesterday!

i guess, for me, that's really the most interesting thing about commenting - it's a chance to participate, now and then, in a complex and interesting conversation, and to actually "say my piece," so to speak. it took me a very long time to discover these comment threads that turn into real conversations, but they were actually the way i finally discovered that blogging has such a strong community aspect.

for months, i blogged happily, ate up the comment crumbs that some kind friends threw at me, and the occasional random blogger who stopped by, but never realized what was going on out here, because the few mommy blogs i'd happened upon (by googling "mommy blog") were pretty, erm, sunny. read facile, popular, and full of comment threads that said things like "wow. so true."

it is in threads like these that i'm always happy to see the original poster come back and comment on the comments, facilitating the thread as it were, and making the conversation flourish in a reciprocal manner. i seldom do it in my own comments, mostly because i seldom generate terribly conversational comment threads. which is an aspect of my own writing that i need to explore, i guess. it's not just topicality, but openness, i think...room for variant opinions?

perhaps i shall try to start a few conversations soon. and then probably fall flat on my face. :)

in terms of general commenting, i usually try to say "hey, i'm here reading" whenever a post hits me at all...but lately i've had to pull back now that i'm at work, in front of a computer all day, and afraid that if i didn't watch myself i'd do nothing but comment on blogs all day long.

Mrs. Chicken said...

SM, the obligation part is tough. And as for burn-out - yeah. I started posting every day during NaBloPoMo and it really uped the ante for me.

Writing each day had a very positive impact on my craftsmanship. It became easier to write, and my words were better, too.

With that came more comments, and more regular readers. So I wanted to get back to each and every one of those readers.

It is easy to get sucked into the blogosphere's gravitational pull and feel torn between real life and blogging.

I guess I don't feel that way because I see blogging primarily as a writing exercise, with a side helping of community.

But I did finish an entire needlepoint project that had been sitting undone, because I had to internet connection last week!

Julie Pippert said...

Still don't have the time to apply to this as I want. I do have a long commenting post in draft form moldering away in my blog drafts for a couple of months. I need to pull it out.

I comment because I have something to say and I have never been one to hold myself back in that case. My family likes to remind me of this frequently. LOL

I think you have an interesting perspective on commenting and this discussion has been intriguing.

At heart, I agree with Jen: how we blog and interact bloggily is a real reflection of who we are.

I have much to say on my own and to others in reply to what they say, blog- and life-wise.

Others feel more trepidation or caution with their words.

And FAKE COMMENTS?

I never thought of that. I am in danger of losing my Devious title.

I will say...it chaps my hide when someone comments with what is clearly the intention of driving me back to their blog. The comment seems empty and advertisement like. I feel marketed to. And I hate feeling marketed to. It depersonalizes me, and makes me a stat in a bucket.

However.

I LOVE when people comment, and especially love new commenters and reciprocal commenters who followed my (as B&P says) trail of breadcrumbs back to my blog. It means something I said intrigued them and they wanted to get to know me better. EGO BOOST. LOL

Invariably the way I find new blogs is through comments---at my blog and elsewhere. For example...I have about five people I want to visit (but am out of time today for now) from comments in this discussion.

I also rely on fave bloggers linking to and recommending, and events such as Just Post, ROFL and Perfect Posts.

And believe it or not, I could go on. But must run!

Magpie said...

Fascinating. Lots of times, I comment because the post has touched a little something in me and I want to share it, in empathy.

CG said...

I am very new to the blogosphere and hadn't given to much thought on the subject of commenting.
I do try to visit my favorite blogs regulary and comment when I feel I have something to say. I never thought of it as advertising for my blog (but I do see how that would work).
I also never thought about the reciprocal aspect. I don't expect people to comment on my blog just because I comment on their.
I am still suprised that people have even visited my blog.
I did find you post very informative, I learn something new about blogging everyday.

Joy, of course said...

I have so much to say on this. I think I comment for many different reasons. I originally started regularly commenting on my favorite blogs (of which yours was the first, Slouching Mom) for a couple reasons. First of all I found the writing so compelling I felt, as you said you did, compelled to let them know. Secondly, I saw there was this community of intelligent, funny writers and I wanted to see if there was some way I could become a part of it. I saw commenting as really the only way to integrate myself.

I remember when I first started my own blog I read one of SM posts on the burden that a blogger might feel to comment and my response was much like CG's then: I couldn't imagine anyone feeling like they had to reciprocate comments. But just in this short time, I understand this. I have a few people who faithfully come and visit my site and I am overwhelmingly touched and thrilled by this. I do feel as though I should do the same for them. I can see if you were a blogger that had developed a large following, that would indeed be difficult. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I am not sure...I doubt my blog will reach this status.

This is such an interesting topic.

nutmeg said...

I lurked for a long time because there's no spell check on these little boxes! Now I just misspell!

mcewen said...

It is creepingly addictive and yes the comments make it all worthwhile.
Best wishes, great post.

mitzh said...

Honestly, I do lurk at some blog. But when I find blog that really caught my interest, then I'll comment.

And there this type of blogs that seems to be really intimate and everybody seems to know everybody that I find myself shying away from leaving a comment.

I agree with lawyer mama, just a small wee bit part of me hopes that the favor will be returned.

Tere said...

I'm very late to this game, but I find myself relating the most to the first comment here (flutter) and lawyer mama's first comment. These too are my reasons for commenting.

While comments do a lot to boost me and to make me feel that someone is out there, I don't care for them if they have no meaning (can I tell you all how much it works my nerves to see comments that basically just say, "First!" or "OMG You rule!"??). Conversely, while I read a lot (and have spurts of commenting a lot and then spurts of silence), I tend to leave comments that are (I hope) thoughtful or supportive or relational in some way.

cce said...

Commenting...so freighted, so permanent, a shot into the void.
And you are right, Slouching Mom, writing without audience is so isolating. I have found it profoundly energizing to have an audience for my short fiction AND amazingly gratifying to have a community with which to share the day to day.