Talk has already begun at BlogRhet about the concept of inclusion and exclusion: how we do (or don't) belong to a particular blogging community, and - for me, anyway - what our responsibilities are once we are a part of a community to those who are not (or, do we even have any responsibility towards them?)
I chose to write about this topic because I am - in some ways - an outsider. Prior to joining BlogRhet, the only blogging community I belonged to was the local South Florida one. And to that I belong simply because I live here, I write about life here and - most importantly - I have been building relationships with other local bloggers.
Let me discuss the So Fla blogging community as I see myself belonging to it. When I was on the verge of leaving anonymous blogging behind, I began to discover a bunch of blogs by other people in So Fla. I was fascinated. I began to be part of the conversation simply by commenting frequently at the blogs that compelled me enough to do so. I think many enter into communities the same way: by commenting. In my experience (and from anecdotal evidence), this leads to either the commenter and blogger engaging in conversation (through a post's comments section or privately via email) and/or the blogger and his/her readers clicking on the hyperlink in the commenters name to access their blog. This is, anyway, what happened with me.
As far as the So Fla blogging community goes, it seems open to accepting any and everyone who wants to engage in conversation and/or take it a step further and meet in person. There have been blogger meet-ups, and some real-life friendships have developed, particularly among the women. A group of us are now in the process of addressing issues related to social responsibility and using our blogs and writer's voices for the greater good. A feeling I have about the local community (and y'all can tell me if I'm wrong) is that while it certainly is an imperfect community (and there is a degree of in-fighting and flame wars), there is nonetheless a unique sense of familiarity that comes from sharing the same living space (and the fact that So Fla is one crazy, effed-up place is a big factor here). A good example of both the good and the bad of the local blogging community, particularly as it both includes and excludes, was when Tancredo opened his yap and people came out swinging from all directions.
But I am more than a So Fla blogger. I am also a "mommy blogger", though I neither knew it nor identified myself as such when I began to write at A Mom, a Blog and the Life In-Between. And while I have felt like a part of the my local blogging community, it is in the mommy blogging community that I have felt more excluded and alone than I had hoped I'd be. In my opinion, there are two key reasons for this.
First, I discovered mommy blogs the same way many people do: through one of the "major" mom bloggers. It seems that for many, this is how the floodgates are opened. I doubt my story is very different from others'. In discovering one big mom blog (MB from here on out), I discovered other "popular" MBs, mainly through her blogroll. The first sign of exclusion, for me, was realizing that, by and large though certainly not absolutely, big MBs link pretty much to other big MBs. The more I think about this, the more I think this has a lot to do with what I call blogging generations. What we now consider "major" MBs are first-generation. When they began, they were it, and they all found out about each other and developed their own relationships and linking/blogrolls. But we are now in the second or third generation of blogging, and so, while we continue to discover and read well-known MBs, they (for the most part, again, there are no absolutes) are not in a position anymore to reciprocate. This, of course, is my non-scientific guess.
Either way, the case can be made that many of us who came into mommy blogging recently (say, in the last year-and-a-half to two), have built a community different from the one created by the popular MBs. The problem comes in when these earlier communities seem more like a clique - and an impenetrable one, at that. When you are a new blogger and think only those blogs exist, and those bloggers, presumably without intending to, shut you out (by not responding to your comments, or personal email, or reading your blog, etc.), it's easy to feel excluded.
I certainly did. Let me be clear: I did not think it intentional on anyone else's part. But initially, it was incredibly off-putting. Enough that I asked myself, why bother reading someone's blog when they don't even bother to respond to you or read your own work? And for a while, I didn't. I had enough going on with my local blogging community and the little world I was cultivating in my blog to "bother" with bloggers who ignored my ass.
The feeling passed as soon as I discovered a whole other MB community, one that seemed (to me, anyway) much more welcoming and inclusive. But the notion of exclusion, intentional or not, has stayed with me. My guess is that this is because while I now interact with a great group of MBs (specifically BlogRhet, but most definitely other wonderful individuals), I still don't feel like it's "my group". I will read anyone I come across whom I find interesting. I will add to my blogroll just about anyone who asks, the only real exception being anyone whose philosophy or parenting style or ethics I morally feel I cannot support or encourage (hasn't happened yet, but I suppose it could). My approach tends to be to welcome one and all to my domain, and then reciprocate by visiting theirs (often or not, it just depends on how busy I am) and either commenting where appropriate or making some sort of contact with the writer to let him/her know I enjoy their blog. Yes, I suffer from an extreme sense of fairness, but to me, this is an important part of being a blogger and part of a larger community. It seems extremely unfair to me to be someone who enjoys a large readership (and therefore, a lot of virtual support and/or the ability to make a living off your blog or blogs) and then not return the favor by reading smaller, newer blogs and/or communicating with those bloggers. I got into blogging, in large part, to make new friends (and amass hundreds of thousands of readers so that publishers have no choice but to offer me a sweet book deal for my novel-in-progress, natch). And if that's my aim, then I have to give what I get, no?
And yet, I can argue that I have my own circle - anyone can. So what marks the line between being inclusive and being exclusive? For me, it's all about how you react to and treat your readers. Some will argue with me, but I am a firm believer in reciprocity. I mean, if you visit my blog and it's just not for you, that's cool; I don't expect you to read it regularly, even if I do read yours regularly. But if I comment on your blog or email you, I DO believe in receiving a response of some kind. And not all bloggers do this. Granted, when you have hundreds or thousands of readers, it's difficult to do. And that's got to be hard. I've heard that popular bloggers heavily feel the burden of navigating this world, of building relationships and commenting here but not there and then dealing with hurt feelings and criticism. And my opinion on that is that a blogger - well-known or not - should comment where they please and damn those who criticize them. But I also believe that, hundreds of readers or not, a blogger, especially one who has gained "fame" or money or a solid reputation (or rather, precisely because of that fame, reputation and money), bears some responsibility in being inclusive, in responding to comments (on their own blog, whether in general or in particular) and playing a role in the community (stepping outside their circle, fostering the community, etc.). And specific to well-known (or "gateway") bloggers, because that is how so many enter into the MB world-at-large, there is a particular onus to be welcoming. Is that a fair thing for me to ask of them? Maybe not. But I stand by it. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all. When you reach a certain stature in any particular niche, there are some expectations that come with it. In this case, I think that expectation is that gateway bloggers be welcoming and responsive, even if it's just in a minor way (such as, a short post recognizing a new crop of commenters - and many new commenters identify themselves as new to the site or to blogging - and welcoming them - or something to that effect; or directly addressing comments that either ask questions or express enough emotion that warrant a response. My suggesting this doesn't mean it doesn't already happen, though).
So, is the behavior of bloggers that comes across as unwelcoming or clique-ish "bad"? Not really, I guess. But it's alienating. And what I've shared here are the factors that, for me, determine how welcome one feels in a particular blog and in different blogging communities.
The second reason for my prevailing sense of exclusion is by far a more important one to me, and the one I really want to explore (yeah, all that rambling up there is basically a preamble). And that is the fact that I am a minority; and that, more than anything, perpetuates this feeling - even in places where I have been included.
If you doubt it (or, do you even think about it?), let me confirm it for you: the mommy blogging community is white. And I am not. At least, not as a general cross-section of Americans define "white". I am white in race but Hispanic in culture. And that makes me not white - at least to anyone who is not like me (I use the term "white" and "regular Americans" to mean white Anglos and basically, what has always been considered the majority in this country). I've already discussed some of the aspects of growing up Cuban in America. The thing is, a great big chunk of my childhood was NOTHING like what most regular Americans experienced. My parents were not American, and so they were unlike anything outside Miami. My world was insular and unique. It was Cuba inside the United States. And I was shaped by that. It has affected the way I see the world, the logic and reason I apply to everything, the way I parent, the way I express myself. And it is utterly alienating. Outside of South Florida, I am a foreigner. The country I was taught to love, respect and honor is a mystery to me in many, many ways.
And while blogging has opened my world in so many ways, it has also made me feel quite alienated at times. It has underscored just how different I am. And it's frustrating. I mean, I read some things that are completely foreign to me. Like, I can't wrap my head around it. And then I check the comments out, and everyone's agreeing, and I'm just floored. I resort to my tired and true line, eso es cosa de Americano, because I don't know what else to make of it.
Obviously, this is not intentional exclusion. But it is a kind of exclusion nonetheless. It is my feeling that the MB world-at-large is predominantly made up of white women. Few are the African-American women, the Hispanic ones, the Aisan ones, etc. Of course, this ties to questions of privilege; and the assumption is that white, in many ways, equals privilege. But there are plenty of African-American, Hispanic and Asian families that are educated, wealthy and just as privileged as white ones (to name the top minority groups in the U.S., but certainly this is can be true of all minority groups). I have made an effort to find blogs (specifically, MBs) by minorities. And they're out there, but not as many as I wish there were, and certainly not in numbers that would drive the point home that we're here and living and loving and have just as much to offer as anyone else. This dearth of minority-voice blogs is another topic unto itself, but for the purposes of inclusion or exclusion, I have to ask, where are the minorities as far as commenting in MBs? I mean, yeah, you don't comment on a blog by first announcing your ethnicity, but there is a void of comments and conversation from women (and mothers) from the perspective of a minority voice.
Is this just me? Do any minorities who read MBs ever feel like, "WTF? I so can't relate"? Does anyone else feel sometimes that the mommy blog world is a microcosm of the United States, where white voices lead and prevail and there seems little room for minorities? And where these white voices seemingly have little to no experiences beyond their white world? The fact that parenting blog advertising dollars are spent entirely (or close enough) on blogs written by white people speaks volumes to me. This is shades of gray, because advertisers will go where the readers are, but doesn't it say something that these advertisers and parenting blog review and media networks have yet to consider anything beyond white? That no one has thought outside the box and attempted to reach minority audiences that have billions and billions of dollars in buying power? Because I may be Hispanic (a term few can even correctly define), but I've got money to burn, too!
The exclusion of the mom blog world of minorities is simply one based on ignorance. You cannot address, or include, that which you do not know. It is true of me in the reverse. But as the minority here, I can't help but see it as a disadvantage. The funny thing to me is that I find myself relating a lot to "foreign" MB's, particularly ones written by Canadians. I don't know if it's because I perceive them as minorities, too (even though they really aren't, but at times this seems like an American playing field) or because I've always had an affinity, a certain soul recognition, with Canadians in general. But outside local blogs, I can relate most to those.
This is hard topic for me to write about (which is why I chose to write about it), and I feel like I have more questions than answers to offer. Still, I think it's an important part of this conversation. A difficult, perhaps sticky, part, but necessary nonetheless. How do you feel about it?
Monday, July 16, 2007
Am I In, or Am I Out?
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ethics,
exclusion,
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54 comments:
This is wonderful, Tere. Honest. And on this topic, honesty is where it's at.
I agree that the first-generation (interesting and apt description, BTW, of the first group of MBs; you're right, they are first-generation in more ways than one) MBs stayed within their circle, though I think this may have been accidental more than anything else, or if not accidental, certainly not intentionally hurtful.
And I also find myself drawn to Canadian bloggers. What is it about Canadian bloggers? As a group, they are incredibly bright. But they also feel warm and welcoming in a way (some)American bloggers don't.
Fascinating stuff; thank you.
You know some days I feel like I just follow Slouching Mom around the blogosphere--and yet I don't believe we read each other. I have to change that!
But anyway, this is a fabulous post. I agree about the sense of exclusion--especially among the first generation MBs or even the larger second generation gals. I am fascinated by your feeling of exclusion from an ethnic or cultural standing as well.
I have been drawn to the blogosphere because of the variety of voices I have access to. I know I've followed blogs of people I probably never would get the opportunity to know in "real" life. And I appreciate the opportunity that I'm afforded through blogging. But I'm concerned that maybe I'm not hearing the diversity that I thought I was if you're saying you don't feel included.
The questions for me is how do we bring more diverse voices to the table? Is it okay if your voice is different? Does that lessen the importance of your experience? To me, it makes your experiences that much more important to share.
At least that's my opinion. I'd love to hear what others have to say.
Tere, great stuff! I had never thought of the MB ( I *like* it!) world in terms of WASP and other culture.
I grew up in southern Ontario in the '40's and '50's -- in an integrated school system and community. Integrated as in Black Canadians and White Canadians. There was also a big Jewish community -- another story. There were a lot of inequities and some abuses, but legally equality reigned.
When I moved to Ottawa I hit multi-cultural, which is very different. And in the last 50 years there has been a quantum change in Canadian cities, even in rural Canada.
I am still a product of my homogenous roots and I blush to admit that I do not look for inclusiveness, I just assume it. You have to get my attention to point out problems.
Which you have just done. A really interesting thesis. How do we know who is WASP and who isn't, unless they say so? If someone does, as you have done, expose their roots, does that put them into a different or lesser category? People blog about all sorts of differences in their upbringing, and that seems, if anything, to make them more likely to be included. But when I stop to think, I cannot come up with one blog that I read that is explicitly written from a different cultural viewpoint. I wish there were more.
SM, Thanks for the kind words about Canada. Oop here we agonize endlessly aboot how we are different from US of Americans - interesting to hear that you think there are some.
Wow, there is a lot to digest there.
I think I like the blogging world specifically because I don't assign race to anyone. I never assume anyone is white or black or brown. The more important pieces are the words and the heart of the writer that shine through. To me, at least. I never assign a race to people in this arena.
I am right with you on the concepts of reciprocity. I had someone ask me to review some of her work and then did not so much as email a thank you after I read everything and offered her the editing she asked for. I understand if you don't want to read my blog, and if you'd rather I not comment on yours, let me know and I won't bother...but to be ignored is pretty rude.
In terms of exclusivity, I find myself in an odd sector in the blogosphere. I read a lot of MB's but I am a childless woman. Sometimes that divide seems non existent and sometimes it seems limitless. But, there is a difference there, and I imagine that maybe the differences we feel are somewhat self imposed? I don't know...
Thank you for this, it was a wonderful read and gave me a lot to think about
I could kiss you, Tere, because you have touched on so many points I have been thinking about myself lately (what with the conference, and all).
I believe I am slotted to post on Wednesday (right?) and so I will reply in more depth then. My initial comments.
First, it is clear that for you blogging primarily about community-building. That the reciprocal nature of commenting is central for you in order to keep reading someone else. And I agree to a large extent--though I am terrible about commenting lately;-)
The question I have is why do we set this requirement for blogging as opposed to other mediums of writing? Why can I happily consume other forms of writing and not expect a response?
And this, to me, weighs heavily on how we perceive blogging as a form of communication as opposed to a form of creativity.
There are bloggers I read who do not respond back, and it's fine with me. I read them because I enjoy their writing. I see them as authors, and I am lucky enough to get to read them without having to schlep to Barnes and Noble and pay cash money.
In addition, there is a huge untold story here. Nonbloggers who read but do not comment. And I am betting you have quite a few of those (I know I do). Do these readers have any role to play here? Or do we simply write for those with whom we are "conversing?"
Your points about race/ethnicity are so important, and mamma's questions above me are great--how do we maintain tightknit communities and at the same time remain open?
I am looking forward to coming back to this. Again--thanks!
Okay, first, and foremost, this was AWESOME.
You wrote so much of what I think. But I believe we've agreed about much of this before.
Let me skip to the end and discuss race.
I think you are right. I think that culture and background matter...they shape who we are and our experiences, the lens through which we view things.
Two ways I know this: my own racial background and where I live.
I am the first generation to not qualify as a minority. And where I live, it is very multi-ethnic, although mainly Hispanic. My kids attended bilingual school, and most of the teachers were of some Hispanic origin. Teachers were as likely to converse in Spanish as in English (with one another, and even many parents). Some kids here speak no English at all, and learn at school. Most things are in both Spanish and English.
It is something special, different. It can relate or distinguish.
I don't know how to make the blogosphere more welcoming and inclusive for minorities...and I'm sorry that sometimes it makes you feel outside.
If it helps, I think almost all of us have *something* that does the same thing. Of course, the difference is, often that something is within our control.
Regardless, I think we all look for that place where we feel a click of good fit.
As to that, I think considering the blogger hierarchy through the concept that it is a sort of generational structure is a good one.
The bloggers who break out into "A-list," who are sponsored or mentored, helped or connected through "A-list" bloggers---what do we call that?
I know at times my sense of exclusion comes from not being in on the conversations up high in which planning and opportunities---and money!---happen. I see the result of that, and am asked to support it (which is often fine) but sometimes it reminds me of job hunting when I got out of college (at the beginning of the 90s when the market tanked).
Like you, I come here for community. Like you, it guides me in my reading choices.
What I find is that in writing it's so hard to distinguish (and this hits on my post of today) when the sense is genuine or just polite.
That goes for reciprocity, too.
I don't feel obligation, I just like to do it. And I hope what I get back is the same.
I am biased towards those who seem to interact with me in some way.
My husband is amused; he just reads things to read, not many blogs (or any) but he considers them the same.
He said sometimes when he follows a link off my blog, he just reads the post and *never* reads the comments!
I'm not sure why it is so different for us.
Lots to work from in your post...excellent. I look forward to more discussion.
Okay just proofed (too little, too late) and I think my exclusion point is unclear.
The easy and obvious counterpoint is: well there is tons of opportunity and you can do your own thing.
True.
But I admit, I still can't quite wrap my mind around all of this Internet stuff, LOL.
And what I'm describing is more my feeling than another's action.
It feels weird to me to use the word "should" in relation to blog behaviour. It seems to me that the blogosphere can function only to the extent that everybody acknowledges that what we're doing here - reading, writing, commenting - is wholly voluntary. Nobody is obliged to read my blog; I am not obliged to read anybody else's.
It's interesting and worthwhile to consider what factors make a blog feel "welcoming" - and I think it's up to each individual to decide how welcoming she wants her blog to be. Some blogs are password-protected; visitors are NOT welcome. That's fine. Others are written primarily for family and friends and no attempt is made to explain "inside information" for the benefit of outside visitors. That's fine too.
I wouldn't want to prescribe behaviour for other bloggers based on what I want this shared space, this community, to be like. There are blogs I like and there are blogs I don't like, but really it's up to me to BE the kind of community I want and to seek out others who are being that kind of community as well.
bubandpie, I hear ya. I too feel weird about using the term "should". At the same time, though, I couldn't escape using it in my efforts to make my point. I describe my ideal and my opinion, but certainly, it's just that, an opinion.
The thing is, while it IS up to each individual to determine how welcoming/unwelcoming he/she wants to be, there's still something to be said about (and to perhaps meditate on) situations where it is avid readership/commentary that has allowed a blogger to gain "fame" and money from her blog - and they reciprocate with very little, if anything. It goes back, I guess, to the question of responsibility, a whole other topic unto itself.
Tere,
I think much hinges on how you view yourself and how you ardently consider that view.
Like you, I'm CA, but I didn't grow up in Miami, I grew up in Detroit (!). So while our upringing may have been insular, the size of the Cuban insula in Miami (a gazillion people) vs. Detroit (my immediate family) made a huge difference.
I never had an us versus them thing going on -- not that you did or didn't, just that I didn't -- because there weren't enough people to make an "us." It was me and my cadre of friends who wondered what in the Hell that was in my lunchbox, but left it at that.
Obviously, as you know from hanging out at my blog, I kinda like being the "only one." I'm a dad in a world of mommies, a Cuban in a world of wildly non-Latins (only you and Tremenda are members of the tribe), etc.
Part of the reason why this is, is because I don't really view myself. I'm just not that introspective. So, in a bizarre way, I am oddly inclusive. All I ask is that those who loiter at my place be polite and charming and thoughtful.
Hence, my place is overrun with Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians (the whole damned Commonwealth, it seems), the odd Brit, and USA-based WASPs out the yin-yang. For the most part, I tend not to think about race or ethnicities. I've met too many jerks and saints to know nobody has a monopoly on anything.
That said, I find the intramural differences RIDICULOUSLY fascinating. Yes, doing ___ is clearly an "Anglo thing." But why they do whatever the Hell it is they do makes for really interesting speculation.
Lastly, I think the single most welcoming thing a blogger can do is engage in combox conversation. In my case, that's the best part of a given post; the give-and-take that springboards from a particular issue or perspective raised.
Now you know.
-J.
Joke, thanks for stopping by here to share - I'm sure the ladies here will be pleased you did so.
I agree with you - blogging has led me to this place where I'm keenly feeling my "non-Americanness", which I've always felt but and contemplated, but not to the degree that I do now. It's frustrating when I'm surprised to read something (and so much agreement) about something I knew nothing about. And right now, I'm dealing with feelings of lack of representation and all such things that I'm not used to dealing with. A challenge, to be sure, but I welcome it. It's part of growing up!
But ultimately, like you, I find it all fascinating, something interesting to speculate about, and a welcome opportunity to learn.
(How was that for charming and thoughtful? :-) )
There are other comments here I have yet to address - just want you to know I'm still mulling those...
Great post.
Race: I am a weird fit here, being bi-racial and tend to slide in and out of 2 different communities. I have a feeling most people who read my blog simply consider me white. But of course this wouldn't be an entirely false assumption as i am half white and fit easily (at least on a visual) level into that world I do know that my blog community, my friends here, are so real and true to me, that their race has never mattered as I read their posts or comments.
Lots of food for thought. . .
I didn't start a blog to be including or accepted by anyone out there. I started it for fun. Whether I get included in any MB's isn't what I'm after. The blogosphere isn't real anyway.
As far as relating to the content and feeling unAmerican-ness, I dunno. The blogs I enjoy reading are what I guess are called "mommy blogs" and I don't care what nationality you are. Moms relate regardless of race.
Tere, this was a great post. You've addressed some of the things I've thought about. Not publicly with blog entries or even overt discussion, but the overriding predominance of white, middle-class women with children is rather hard to ignore.
It doesn't bother me particularly, even though I am a divorced, middle-aged woman who did not have children. I am also low income. Naturally, I am biased when it comes to the people who visit me and whose sites I visit. They're all very nice people. For the most part, their socio-economic status is something I have to guess at, using certain social markers. No one comes out and says, "I make six figures" or "my husband makes five figures." However, pictures and certain comments sometimes make a definite statement. I don't know the racial composition of my community. I do know most of them have children and live familycentric lives which I do not.
Additionally, I am someone who adheres to a different cultural model that is definitely not American. It was a conscious choice on my part to adopt and assimilate into my chosen culture.
Okay. That stated. :)
I suspect a lot of this alienation comes from us internally. There are very few people who deliberately set out to exclude us or drive us away. At least that has been my experience. It's easy to feel alienated when our lives are so drastically different.
I don't believe I have ever been intentionally "Othered" by anyone. There was a little backchannel thing that occurred and it made me plenty mad.. but not in a general way. I was angry at the people involved.. only.
There are certainly some people who have been rude. I've visited blogs and commented, generating no response at all from the authors.
I don't visit again.
Reciprocity matters to me. But that's just me.
Now I would find your blog interesting because I know very little about the Cuban community in Miami.
And that's how diversity starts... People getting to know each other and their cultures, ways of life and worldview.
Thanks for such a thoughtful post. :)
Peace,
~Chani
I want to address some of the comments made - forgive me if I jump around a bit, though. There's a lot to absorb and think about and these are probably just my surface thoughts and first impressions.
Going back to the culture/ethnicity thing: I don't mean to imply that I feel this ALL the time. It comes and goes, mostly when a blogger is discussing a tradition or "the way things are" and I'm like, I've never even heard of it in my life. Queen Heather, I have to disagree with your point that moms relate regardless of race. To a degree, that's true (certain elements of parenting are universal), but part of what I'm trying to communicate is that I CAN'T relate to a lot of things, including parenting-related ones! And it has everything to do with my cultural background. As American as I am in many ways, I am still the product of a family and community founded on the notion that our time in the U.S. would be a short one. Believe me when I tell you that I was raised with traditions, habits and values that would seem foreign to you. And as a mother, a lot of these things have resurfaced.
Now, I don't think this is a bad thing at all - but undeniably, I am affected when I repeatedly find that I can't think "me too!" when I read other MB blogs.
Also, some of you have stated that you don't factor race in, which makes sense, but which I can't help but think is part of the privilege of being white. Minorities are, in varying degrees, more aware of race and ethnicity. I suppose it's because it's always an obvious factor in your life...
Ultimately, the ethnicity issue for me translates to a desire to see more blogs that contain an ethnic voice. I mean, if you are something different from me, I'm gonna read you for that specific reason. And I wonder if "white Anglos" ever consciously think of this? Of how homogeneous the MB world is? And if you would be compelled to read about the lives of others who are NOT white, NOT of the same general background as you, etc?
Chani, I understand your point about socio-economic status. As someone who grew up poor and is now somewhere in the middle, I get what you say about "certain social markers", as I do that subconsciously. That is a whole other thing to ponder, in my opinion, and ties to questions of privilege and how in many cases, it is socio-economic status that gives us the "luxury" to blog.
Tere, good point! You know, I don't think most white people think of race in the same way. In fact, I'm certain of it.
I will also intentionally read blogs that are authored by someone from a different culture, different than the one I grew up in and different than the one I adopted. It broadens my perspectives and that's always a good thing.
The reason I mentioned the socio-economic thing is because I've always believed American culture is more classist than racist. Since blogging is more an American pastime than seemingly any other culture, the predominance of American value systems are more commonly present.
I do wish there was more of a minority presence and more class differences present.
You raise a good point though about the "luxury" of blogging. I can only do it because I am disabled and have the free time to do it. Most low income people are too busy working their asses off to have the time to ponder issues and write about them on blogs. They're more concerned with feeding their kids.
Still, I believe there is an opportunity to "court" minorities, culturally and racially, and begin to hear their voices a lot more than we do.
Peace,
~Chani
Great points, Tere, all of them - lots to chew on.
I think that you're right to distinguish between generations of bloggers. What I'm not so sure about is whether the lines between generations are clearly drawn, or whether the first-gen communities are really so exclusive. Also, the question of responsibility is, I think, difficult to get at. I agree with you that it's possible to argue that 'big' bloggers have certain community responsibilities - but do they bear these responsibilities as individuals? Is it necessary that the responsibilities should all reduce to 'reciprocity', and, at that, universal reciprocity?
It's impossible for a big blogger to respond to all commenters. Impossible. I'm not a huge blogger, but it's impossible for me (I do, however, respond to all e-mails). But there are other ways of being a good 'blog citizen': seeking out new bloggers when one can, linking where one can. Doing 'round ups (Amalah's Daily Dose). Supporting other bloggers in other ways - participating in memes, fundraising, putting up buttons. The list is endless.
I agree with Bub, though, that we need to avoid 'shoulds' when it comes to blogging. It'd be nice if Dooce acknowledged every single person who ever commented on her blog, but why *should* she, even if she could? In any case, it would be impossible for any big blogger to make everyone happy.
Joy raises a good point about the legions of readers who don't comment. We speak about community and 'citizenship', but we really should consider the fact that the most of the people who read us are silent. My commenters represent only the merest fraction of my site visits. How do we account for these? Are these readers part of our 'community'? Or not?
Race/culture/ethnicity - yes, you're right, this community is pretty white, pretty privileged. I follow a lot of blogs that are NOT written by white or middle-class or married or hetero women, but the numbers aren't the same. Much to be said here, when I have more time. I will say, though, there is more diversity in my online community than there is in my off-line community. Much more.
Okay I'm going to be frank here (but you can still call me Julie).
I am surprised to see so many people say "race doesn't matter" and "the Internet is color blind" and "I don't care about race."
Why?
Why doesn't race and ethnicity matter...how can it not?
Why pretend not to see color that is there?
Maybe it comes from growing up being told how lucky we were (me and my sister) to get all the white and living many years in a predominantly black community...but I view it very differently.
Okay how to say this how to explain this.
I can only think to repeat myself: your background creates the lens through which you view and experience the world.
When I watch the suburban white people work so hard to pretend the black neighbor isn't *black,* it offends me.
How patronizing it can be, hey let's pretend you are white JUST LIKE ME!
When someone says, "oh they are so nice, you know..." with the trailed off implication being "for a black family," it offends me.
I don't want to make anyone think I walk around with twisted knickers all day (although hmmm...there are days LOL) and geez, who am I to speak, I have no claim to minority status. But I did come from people who do, and it passed down.
I don't want to say race matters as in it counts in some evaluation of a person. That's not it.
When we pretend to be color blind, it somehow invalidates the richness in actual diversity, and the experience many minorities have coming up brown or black or otherwise in a white world.
We don't need to IDENTIFY someone as their race, but it is an aspect.
Am I making any sense?
I understand most have good intentions, but it's again the difference (and this was a WONDERFUL way of saying it, in Sarah's recent race post comments...who said it? Flutter?) between tolerating and accepting.
Okay that's my view.
I hope I haven't stuck my foot in it, and apologies in advance for any offense.
One more thing...
I will send a kudo up north to the Canadians, by the way.
In the US, we talk about race, ethnicity, and culture all melting together in a big pot. I used to think that was great, like the best way to view it. So PC.
But then, some times, someone from Canada wrote an essaya bout how in Canada immigration is referred to as a colorful quilt, with many distinct pieces coming to gether to form a beautiful whole, diferent yet complementary.
I was bowled over. That was fantastic.
The melting pot's tragic flaw is the idea that we all need to boil it down to homogeneity.
I prefer a quilt. I've never been much of one for soup. ;)
And to maintain my comment hog status (LOL at me)...the other points.
I distinguish between Independent and Studio bloggers, more, I guess, than between generations (although that is still an interesting way to think of it).
I imagine Independent is pretty obvious.
Studio bloggers are syndicated. They work within a network and publish on eZine and review sites, get paid, work within parameters of their sponsors, etc. Posts are often teasers that ask you to hop to another site, pay per post, click through to something, etc. These are typically the ones who are approached by editors etc. with job offers. They are considered the blogging successes and are often interviewed and/or asked to speak on behalf of blogging and bloggers. They often become celebrities.
Independent bloggers may also earn money with click-through ads, get perks through reviews, etc. but in general they are acting on their own behalf, independent of any group or syndicated site. They may also become quite popular.
Those are mostly the two fields I see on this ranch. ;)
Julie -- I really hear ya on the race/ethnicity thing. I don't want to be told that you can't see my ethnicity - it's something I'm really proud of. And while I feel many times like I'm too Cuban to be American and too American to be Cuban, ultimately, I feel like I have the best of both worlds. And I want to share that. I want people to know what it means to be Cuban and Cuban-American specifically and Hispanic in general terms. We're cool-ass people!
HBM - I agree that big bloggers can not possibly answer every comment, but that like you said, there's a lot that can be done to be inclusive. Although I wrote a lot about commenting, I did neglect to bring up all those other elements.
The thing with *should* is still one I haven't really decided on. I generally agree that I/we shouldn't use the term, but the question about why a big blogger *should* address comments makes me think, then why should I read the work of someone who rarely acknowledges anyone's existence beyond her tight circle of friends? I hate to be so un-PC and unfriendly about it, but my bottom line is that I have a hard time being supportive of those who don't give back (in whatever way, not necessarily responding to comments). Why should I then be counted on to help them make money off their blogs? Or to view them as an authority of any kind?
This, of course, puts us in sticky territory, and I don't want to fan the flames. Still, it's how I feel - and it brings to mind Joy's comment on how blogging is viewed more as a means of communication than creativity. I don't have a clear answer for this, but yes, I think there's something about the way blogging is set up that makes it (to me) more about communicating and building than *just* about creativity. At the same time, I think there's room for creative blogs. The difference with those would be, I suppose, the way they are structured? That they wouldn't have much commercial aspect beyond the writer's work? Not exactly sure, must ponder this...
The points HBM and Joy have made about readers who don't comment -- they are, to me, an incredibly interesting part of this community (and I do consider them part of the community). In some blogs, I am that person - I just enjoy reading and don't really want to engage. But as someone who has a lot of readers in this category, I certainly want to engage them. I'd have to say that for me, comments make up about 3% of my readership. The writer in me feels tortured by this - like, who are you? What do you want from me? What must I do to make you reach out to me? But then I get over it and just accept that they are there because they want to be, and I'm happy and grateful and that's that. :-)
Oh, HBM - you ask some great Q's about big bloggers and responsibility of group vs. responsibility of individual... more to think about!
Julie--when i say race/ethnicity doesn't matter when i read the comments or posts of other bloggers it is mostly because almost all i have read is outside of that topic of discussion. I believe it matters on many, many levels. But to be super simple, it doesn't matter all the time. And so far the blog world is one place where the issue hasn't surfaced in my reading much (yet). I would be interested to read blogs that discuss race more intimately, but so far race just hasn't surfaced in the discussions to any great extent.
And, dude, you have not offended at all! As always, I love ya! And that quilt idea is a lot like the old salad bowl idea from school house rock. But i like that much better than any old soup/stew/or melting pot! LOL
tere-- i totally agree that if you are of an ethnic/racial minority you think about these issues much more. You've inspired me to really think hard, and perhaps write a post (someday) about multicultural identities and bi/racial families like mine.
Christine, yes, that's it. Thanks for saying it better than I could!
(And for not wanting to you know, cross me out of your blgoroll or something. ;) )
Do you remember Gwen's challenge to bloggers to discuss marriage more, like we discuss parenting? Of course I was a big ole wet blanket on that but...maybe if we made the challenge one of those "don't discuss at dinner" issues such as race, culture, religion, ethnicity etc....Hmmmm...
BTW, I want to be clear---because someone asked me about it---I am not indicating that I see racism here in the blogosphere (or comments). I was talking in general, just about a question I've had in my mind.
Tere,
Think about it.
Your outlook when you are 0.000000000000000000001% is different when you belong to a 10% group. The trick, for me, has been to be able to "mix without dissolving" if that makes any sense.
Where your case differs from mine is that since you grew up in Miami, certain Anglo things hit you as "I've never heard THAT!" whereas in my case it's been more like "Oh, I heard about that ages ago...and it still makes no sense."
That said -- and possibly because of my own weird circumstances, which included a grandfather from Spain and a grandmother from Italy -- I don't look for any specific kind of blogger beyond someone who seems like a decent human being and writes in an entertaining way.
Put another way, I pick up and loiter at blogs of people about whom I say "There's someone who'd be fun to have a friend." More often than not, a for-real friendship emerges.
When I find someone (like you) who understands a lot more of the back story, that's awesome because there that much less explaining to do. If I mention the can of cling peaches in the grandmother's bathroom you get it immediately (go ahead, blog about THAT! ha!) as opposed to someone else for whom I'd have to go into a whole history lesson.
So, like you, I'm a cultural mish-mash. Not by design, of course, but I am who I am, and I like it. So my WASP pal in Chicago wonders why the Hell I let my 9 year old drink cafe' con leche (basically a caffe' latte) for breakfast. I wonder at how they can drink brewed coffee. But I still love them to death and when we had to go up to Chicago for my 8 year-old's treatment, they couldn't have possibly been more kind or hospitable.
Then again, maybe something inside me has scrambled my belongingness needs or my identity center or something. [Shrug]
Lastly, I'm pretty pleased that, although I "don't not see" race/ethnicity, I actually couldn't possibly care less. Be funny, thought-provoking, kind and interesting and I'm at your blog; be dull, stupefying, mean and boring and I'm not.
There! Now you know my secrets.
-J.
Tere, I love this post, and the comment discussion that is following. Very cool. I have to admit, I hadn't run across your blog before, but I definitely will go check it out now and hear more about what you are thinking. I really enjoy reading the words of people from all over, and hearing how our experiences are alike or different.
For me, incidentally, this blogosphere, or the mommy- part of it, at least, is eye-opening to me for the converse of what you're saying -- so many of us are having such the same experiences regardless of state, country, or cultural background. I think that's amazing in and of itself (details be damned) and I celebrate that. MB as women and as mothers have so much to unite us -- starting with love for and pride in our children.
And that, to me, is well worth the time and energy spent.
The more I think about this post and the comments, the clearer it is to me that a BIG reason for my leaving anonymous blogging behind had to do with a need/desire to connect to other people. As much as it's been about testing my mettle as a writer and trying to lose some of my self-consciousness/control freak/perfectionist tendencies, it's also been about meeting people both like and not at all like me and trying to form something with them.
Motherhood has brought up for me a whole slew of things I never thought I'd ever deal with again, or deal with, period. Not all of it bad, but all of it things to deeply think about. In discovering the blogosphere as a whole and mommy blogs specifically, I have found myself frustrated when I can't relate and thrilled when I can. It makes me realize, and this is really just personal to me, that I never really will belong to either my Cuban heritage or my American life. That's not really a "bad" thing, but it causes a lot of internal conflict.
Like my friend Joke states, I basically just care about finding good, smart, kind, funny people. So stumbling upon moments of "WTF??" tend to bug me (perhaps more than it bugs other people), because there's a part of me that feels like it shouldn't happen. Also, living in Miami is incredibly insular, and I just don't like that. As diverse as Miami is, it really isn't, if that makes any sense.
Oh, and that term "mix without dissolving" - good one. It captures pretty much what I am trying to do.
Miami is insular in that its diversity is VERY different from other diversities.
Like that makes sense.
But it's true.
-J.
This is just a topic that won't let go. Great moderating Tere!
Re Canadian mosaic of cultures. Some people say we carry it too far. And immigrants can have a hard time here. A really hard time. But I think we are pretty good at remembering that in the end we are all immigrants. All of us. From somewhere or somewhen.
I think whoever said that if you have differences from the mainstream culture you think about them a lot is really on the money. I really like some of the issues you bring up in your own blog, Tere. It's a pleasure to read and I learn a lot.
Learning about people and interacting with them is, I think, why a lot of us blog and why the interaction is very open.
I feel like I need to jump back in here and defend myself, to a point.
But, instead I'll just acquiesce that I can't possibly understand the subject matter at hand from a white, priviledged American point of view. I am glad you brought it up for me to be conscious of in the future.
Why should I then be counted on to help them make money off their blogs?
I think Tere's question is one that everyone does ask at some implicit level. There are bloggers with whom I have a reciprocal relationship; there are bloggers I'm "courting" by leaving several unreciprocated comments; and then there are bloggers that I've courted in vain for long enough to realize that no matter how often I visit and comment, they're never going to reciprocate.
At any given time, I may be reading a handful of blogs by people in that third category - but those are the first blogs to go when I'm busy and need to go on an "unsubscribing" frenzy.
I don't think that there is an exploitive relationship in any of those categories, though, precisely because it IS up to me to determine whether or not to keep reading, whether or not to keep commenting. With bigger bloggers, I will often assume in advance that they fall into that third category, and I make my decisions accordingly - if what they write is entertaining enough that I want to keep coming back, even without much chance of reciprocity, then I'll subscribe, going in with my eyes open.
yes. I am on the same page as Bub on this one, and it goes back to my point over why we have different expectations for writers to publish through their blogs as opposed to those who publish through other mediums. I know the comparison only works so far, but on the other hand, as we think about those blogs that are more successful, why can we not see that this is as much about merit as anything else. We chose to read them because they are good writers. I get something from the deal, even if it is not a relationship--something enjoyable or provocative to read.
I've been following this discussion for a little while and feel somewhat hesitant to add...
Not because I don't have anything to say, but because, in amongst some great, well-articulated opinions, mine might be quashed. Or, worse, mighn't be relevant.
Where I'm from, blogging is only really just starting to take off, so I've felt in some way the....challenges...it can be to 'crack into' another cultural idiom. This doesn't really bother me - until I start self-deprectatingly refer to myself in comments as something like "that Aussie girl" or some pithy, charming response, when I don't like saying it at all, when I say "Misc. Mum" and then don't even like that. Plain ole' "Karen" doesn't sit right either!
Yes, I guess it comes down to the "Should" question.
p.s has anyone given thought to how some blogging templates make it harder to reciprocate comments easily? For example, I know some wordpress plugins allow you to directly email a commenter, from the post source.
I do not believe blogger has the same. (which I wish it did)
Funny how our technology is the source of such communication; and we are still finiding ourselves 'limited' in perhaps making final, but certainly crucial, personal contacts...
Bubandpie and Joy - what you say about lack of exploitative relationship between "big" bloggers and readers and about how it's also based on merit are things I agree with. I would agree with bubandpie's division of "relationships", and that yeah, a good blog is a good blog and you read it regardless. And sometimes, if you just feel that the "relationship" has exhausted itself, you're always free to walk away.
The thought that comes to mind, which I haven't brought up yet (didn't seem to fit anywhere but which perhaps I should have squeezed into the post somewhere) is that I wonder sometimes when I see other (smaller, non-famous) blogs with raving, fawning posts about any one of the big, famous bloggers. I definitely believe in giving praise where one feels like giving it, but just as I've seen posts along the lines of "XXX wrote yet another beautiful post about (whatever) and it got me thinking..." and then gives praise the other blogger based on her content and tone and for specific reasons, I've also seen countless posts about XXX that use a lot of flattering terms but have no substance ("She rocks" is all well and good, but come on). I call them ass-kissing posts and/or comments (because many comments sections bleed comments like these). And I have to say, I wonder about those, at least as far as intent goes.
Of course, I'm also thinking to each her own, write what you want to write about, I ultimately don't care - but posts like that I just dismiss as ass-kissing b.s. (politics of blogging perhaps?).
But yeah, good points.
And flutter - while I understand your need to defend yourself, I want you to know that I understand your point of view, too. And I understand your sentiment that ultimately, it's the writer's voice and spirit that you care about. That's really cool, too.
Identifying as an MB makes me uncomfortable. Part of my discomfort stems from what I have sensed to be a weird kind of group think, where all MBs are supposed to love everything all the other MBs write, simply because they're MBs and part of some secret society. (Perhaps, an incorrect perception, but one I have never fully been able to shake, even though so many of the MBs make me laugh and think and cry.)
I'm cool with being an observer--neither "In" or "Out". Observer status allows me to still have strong opinions, and to worry less about writing something might boot me back to being firmly "Out."
I feel like I have some entry into a few blogging communities instead of being pegged into a role as an MB, or ______ kind of blogger. I like it this way.
Reciprocity is causing me to feel a great deal of guilt right now. I wish I could reciprocate more than I'm currently able.
I had no idea.
Really, when I decided to blog, I was doing it for myself, and for my family, and I almost didn't include the comment feature, not understanding what it was for. When I started reading blogs, I never read the comments. I had seen the comment feature used in news articles, and it was full of ignorant comments and cursing, so I disregarded it. Then I gradually realized that commenting formed a conversation. However, I still never saw comments as a request for a response.
I liken it to attending a lecture. Sometimes, you see a speaker in a big hall, and there are a few questions, related to clarifying the substance of the presentation, but very little “testifying” by the audience. This seems like the “first generation blogs,” which, I must confess, I have not seen. Then (if I may torture this metaphor a little more), there are blogs that are more like a peer-to-peer presentation, in which the person on the dais (the blogger) talks on a subject, and the other people in the room comment and ask compelling questions. However, it is the exception rather than the rule that a speaker at a conference will therefore attend the lectures given by every person who commented at her seminar. So I thought it was in the blogging world. I thought comments were give-aways, and if a relationship grows between two people, it does. I never expected feedback on any comment I left, nor did I respond to many comments left on my blog. I mean, if I said “I know exactly how you feel, sister,” I’m done. I don’t expect her to write me back and say “thanks for sharing.”
So, my expectations of blogging are so different from Tere’s, I never felt excluded. But I can see that if you can’t break into a social circle where you are seeking community, exclusion would be troublesome. I have certainly had more “excluded” experiences in the real world: a study group, a sports team, a church group. I did not expect the blogosphere to be different, but also, I was coming here to read and to write in a unilateral fashion, so the notion of joining a community was not there.
I want to think more on the notion of race, ethnicity, and class. One of the things I like about my blog is that you don’t get to assign your preconceptions about my religion, race, ethnic background, or class onto my words, because you only know it if I choose to reveal that. However, what I do choose to reveal about myself IS formed due to my race, religion, culture and class, so eventually, it’s no secret.
Hmm. Must think more.
Great post, Tere, and sorry to be coming to it so late. I don't know how much I have to offer on the heart of the post but I did want to say a couple of things that are perhaps a bit tangential.
For me, I built my blog on reciprocity. I never wanted to be a big blogger; I just wanted to talk to those who would talk back. Sadly though, the time constraints that I have for blogging have compromised my ability to continue to live by the reciprocity virtue. It saddens me that I can't do all the reading and commenting that I would like to do. Sometimes it even makes me retreat further from the community because I can only see futility in my efforts to engage in the manner that I would like to engage in.
Secondly, I am not in a minority. I am a white, middle-class Canadian woman. I do live in a small, have-not region in Canada, though, and most of my bloggy life has been spent wrestling here and there with issues that come up b/c most of the Canadian bloggers are from the greater Toronto area. I have, at times, found this alienating. I must admit that when I discovered Bon (who lives in my region) I was over the moon. I now read Sweet/Salty Kate as well. For me, it has meant a lot knowing that I am not the only voice coming from this distinct place and this distinct cultural experience. It's not that the others went out of their way to make me feel excluded--far from it; it's just that sometimes it is lonely being the only one. Your experience in the mom-o-sphere must be like that only 100 times greater because, as you say, there are structures in place that do make it hard for more minority women to write and to be heard.
Wow. This is a deep discussion.
I have nothing deep to add, I just wanted to say hi. I'm from Miami (but not Cuban, I'm Colombian and Dominican).
I just got back from Miami (la saguecera, to be exact). I should have looked you up, chica.
For some strange reason, I feel the urge to remind my readers that I'm Hispanic. I just think it's awesome and I'm incredibly proud of it.
I have so many ways that I am nodding in agreement that I don't even know from which vantage point to start my comment.
Firstly, this was a wonderfully written post and in terms of the MajorMomBloggers, I couldn't agree more. I find it rather telling of the person doing the writing as to whether they acknowledge new commenters or just the same old "friends". It's sort of like rock stars who either help out up and comers or rest on their laurels and give nothing back to the community. And that is where community either begins or ends.
Also, I always feel like the odd blogger out in visiting many of the blogs because I am the anomoly of the undereducated Mom who has to work because of financial need. Having had my children relatively later in life, I am also generally ten years older than most of the MommyBloggers.
I am white converted to Judaism and don't necessarily have strong ties within the Jewish blogging community.
All this is to say that in some way we all feel like outsiders looking in, although I can understand how being a minority would further drive another wedge. I have found myself being at turns annoyed by said MommyBloggers because they seem to be whining from behind their walls of privilege and agreeing with their points as they suffer from the same trials and trevails of parenting/motherhood that all of us do.
Pfew, sorry to create a post within the comment but your post was just so identifable and relatable. The truth is that I am not really part of the MommyBlog community and don't necessarily identify myself as such although many of my posts revolve around my children and family life. I am happy, however, to have found such a refreshing viewpoint in the midst.
G, thanks so much for your input, you add more for us to think (and write) about!
Oh, and on the off chance this helps, I too work outside the home out of financial necessity. I would probably work at least part time if we could afford it (the running joke in our family is that I married the poorest Jew in Miami, and who knew there was such a thing?), but not having a choice whatsoever sucks.
Tere, look at that - I married the poorest Jew in NYC! Go figure ;)
Tere, this was a great post. Lots to chew on.
I've thought a lot about the "generations" thing as well. I do read and link some big bloggers, without really expecting anything in return, just because I like their writing.
But generally, reciprocity is really important to me. I tend to reciprocate by commenting on the other person's blog. Sometimes I think it's better to be "small" because I like knowing who everyone is.
I've thought a lot about the race issue as well. I'm white but married to a Korean-American man, so a lot of the blogs I read are by Asian-Americans or somehow Asian-related. Race *does* matter. It shapes our experience as individuals and parents in big and small ways.
I'm sorry I've come in so late, so I am hesitant to add anything, since so much has been said already. But I sat and read through all the comments and am so impressed by the various discussions.
I've written before about how important I think reciprocity is in the blogging community, so I won't rehash that. I do agree that there are so many other ways to reciprocate, even if one cannot respond to every post.
In reading through this wonderful discussion I'm reminded of an attempt I made, about a year or so ago, to incorporate blogging into one of my classes. For those who don't know me, I teach at a small, private historically black college in the South. When I brought up the topic of blogs my students looked at me blankly. Blogs? I gave them some links and sent them off to explore the world of blogging. When they returned, a few days later, they were completely turned off the idea of blogging. One student quipped, "it's white space, not my space"--I think they felt the exclusion, the invisible walls.
I like the blogging world for the same reasons flutter mentioned--the lack of assumptions, the power of just the voices coming through. But it occurs to me that for some--my students perhaps--they need to be identified, to make their presence felt in stronger ways, to have their identities front and center.
Rachel and Aliki2006, thanks for joining the conversation!
I think both your perspectives, based on your different experiences, are really important. Rachel, your last sentence pretty much conveys it all! And Aliki2006, I'm intrigued by your students - I totally understand why they would peruse the blog world and classify it "white space" - but definitely, the ideal would be for them to harness the power of the Internet and claim it in their own way.
Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts!
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